Para colocar as suas mensagens tem de efectuar primeiro o login.
Clique aqui para efectuar o seu login ou registar-se se for um novo utilizador.
Página: 3 |
Exibindo mensagens 41 - 60 de 86 |
| New feature: Introducing the Newsroom |
| Autor |
Mensagem |
|
|
Mensagem editada em 10/05/2006, 19:30:20 PM pela Nyul |
 |
 |
That high level of sentimentalism is too much for me. I doubt you know to much about this profession except borwsing the internet for written rules. I envy you for having that many free time for self appointed crusades.
It will be the task of DT to judge what shots they accept and what they refuse because of its sensitive nature. It is not rocket science, every single newspaper in every single country is doing it. And everyone who works can make mistakes.
|
|
Body: Canon 1DsMkIII, 5D, 10D
Lenses: 24/1.8, 50/1.8, 85/1....
|
Arquivos enviados: 8101 | Total de vendas: 24822
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/05/2006, 20:08:11 PM pela Sophieso |
|
|
Nyul, I am a long standing member of PPA and have known the code of ethics by heart for a long time.....and I live by them.
It is critical that any photograph releating to news and world events be completely unaltered in any way whatsoever, and that none of us do anyting to further lessen the public's trust in photojournalism. Too much of that has been going on lately, and if you pay attention you will understand how mass hysteria can turn or be averted by a single photograph. In no area is the photograph more powerful than in photojournalism.
We need true, faithful, and accurate documentation of world events as they unfold. Your photograph has been altered so that it can be used for purposes that don't apply to the recent protests, and it also hides the details and the story of the events that did unfold in front of your camera. That was a demonstration in Bucharest, and without the full information of the image the events, its meaning, and the alertness you could have offered to those in foreign countries has been erased. The photograph becomes entertainment and a pretty picture.
No story that is of value to the public, even if it is as small as the anti-oxidant properties of blueberries, should be reduced to a pretty picture. All it took was one news agency to announce that blueberries were powerful antioxidants and blueberry farmers around the world were overnight millionaires.
Now think of a blogger cruising the internet looking for a reason to cause panic just for the fun of it. If you don't think there are people out there who find pleasure in such things, pick up an American newspaper and read how teenagers are walking into schools and murdering dozens of classmates because it is "fun" or "entertaining." A blogger causing problems is small potatoes in this world. Such a blogger with enough of a following could take your photograph, legally buy it from Dreamstime, and use it to represent police action anywhere in the world, including Podunk USA.
Which makes me wonder if there will be any change in the end users agreement with DT when downloading images from the Newsroom. Buyers of news related photographs should, at the least, let their identity be known and the name of the web site or publication in which the photograph will be used. At the same time, the creator and copyright holder of the image should be kept confidential.
If you want to play the news game, play by the news game rules. |
|
|
Arquivos enviados: 268 | Total de vendas: 830
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/06/2006, 02:14:44 AM pela Nyul |
|
|
Read accuratly not just repeat your own text. This photo is NOT altered and I never told it is. What I told that on SOME photos I have masked out the face of policemen by a white fake reflection, but not even on this one. On the other hand every newspaper is masking out the face of policemen, in order to protect them, it is an unwritten rule... at least in my country.
"Do not manipulate images IN ANY WAY THAT CAN MISLEAD viewers or MISPRESENT subjects."
DT never asked us to to do this. They just don't want to see regognizable faces because they want to avoid all problems you are talking about. It is the reponsibility of a medium how it uses a photo. Any photo can be used on a bad way your described... doesn't matter where it is originated from, from Ghettys or from DT.
But I tell you something. When these riots happend here some weeks ago a lot of photos have been taken by the press. Now, the police is recognizing and searching for people by using these photos. If you go to take shots of the protestors now, even if they are friendly and do not want to make riots, they are very unhappy to look into the lens and usually are asking or threating you to maks out their faces.
|
|
Body: Canon 1DsMkIII, 5D, 10D
Lenses: 24/1.8, 50/1.8, 85/1....
|
Arquivos enviados: 8101 | Total de vendas: 24822
|
|
|
|
Mensagem editada em 10/06/2006, 02:54:04 AM pela Administração |
|
|
The discussion tends to go on a different path here. Some posters seem to draw false assumptions and put the agency in a bad light. It happened before and we will no longer tolerate this. If you make a statement then come with a proof, not talk at future tense about what you think that could happen.
The events that happened in Budapest (and that is Budapest, not Bucharest) are news-worthy. Images from that event are not degrading. In fact some participants at those manifestations will call it revolution. Their prime minister lied to them and acted extremely dishonest. They answered with fury and in a harsh way, that was their problem. If they would've been civilized, the events wouldn't be called riots. However, did you really read those news? Do you know what really happened there before posting false accusations?
One of the main principles of photojournalism is to try to create a better world.
We take a very small part out of that domain and try to integrate it into our database. The reason this is embedded into the stock database is because the audience is estimated to be a very low niche and we don't want to confuse other buyers. In the same time we don't want that under the protection of photojournalism to display any kind of event and the tragedies you are talking about. This is just the filter you want. Our contributors cannot work as the real photojournalists and we don't have the power to be a news agency. For that there are the true professionals that risk their lives daily.
We want politics, social or cultural events. THIS IS NOT A FEATURE FOR THE FIVE O'CLOCK NEWS OR PAPARAZZI.
We don't expect high earnings, we just want to give a new creative tool to the contributors.
They are NOT TO BE photojournalists and the banner displayed at the beginning of this thread said "We want you as photojournalists". Correct me if I am wrong, that DOESN'T mean "We want you to be photojournalists".
Before drawing false assumptions, better wait and see what kind of news will popup.
As a side note. There is something to stop the hungry member from staging scenes, it is called ethics and character. If someone would do that, it would reveal its true nature. It would be in fact useful for the community, because we don't want such members around.
Saying someone would stage scenes is science fiction for our audience. Why would one do that for a buck from a small audience niche, when he can ask the same people to model for him in the studio and cover a lot of stock themes.
We are not just a website, we are an agency and we do some research you know? We know what we should expect and what kind of news are handy, can be covered and accepted. There are a large set of filters that would avoid publishing horror stories like the ones described.
One of the reasons this site was called Dreamstime is that we hoped it will create a better world. We also hoped that images taken from amateurs can compete with the big guns of the industry. They do that now and the site is now one of the top agencies in the world. So we want to make a tiny little step forward to the other reason, giving something back to the society. Something else than just advertisements.
In order to believe that your agent would do such things you need to have some strong arguments, not just presume "what could happen". You need to have the experience of previous things that this agency did to you. And it never did something dishonest or unethical. It never failed to listen to your opinions. So don't throw mud because we will not fail to defend ourselves and the rest of our members. |
|
Nikon D300 / Nikon N80 | Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fishey...
|
Arquivos enviados: 2336 | Total de vendas: 15203
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem editada em 10/06/2006, 03:44:57 AM pela Nyul |
|
|
Sophieso: There aren't unaltered images. Photographers are not security cameras. The way, how they crop a piece of the scene in the viewfinder the moment when they release the shutter and the selection what they make on their table or computer... these are already alterations of the reality. Much-much stronger alterations then the removal of an advertisiment or logo.
If you really do this by heart and ethics then you know what to do and what don't. What moment to capure and what don't. And how to do not alter the reality... or alter it as less as possibe.
You will never prove me that covering the face of anyone who does not want to be in your pohto is unethical. The unethical thing is to keep his face there against his will. But this is a unrelated feature here, because I don't think DT or any stock oriented agency wants photos where human faces are covered by a big black boxes. :)
Back to the related topic. What DT wants us is a news oriented stock photography. In some aspect it can be called less professional then photojournalims but in some aspects it is even harder to do. This is a different field of photography, that's it. Just ask a photojournalist what he/she things about these rules (no faces, no logos... etc. but stil story-telling images). He would say uhh, this is very hard, I don't have the time to take also these rules into consideration when I take a photo!
Yes, it seems impossible to show as deep emotions as a photo with a crying or a distressed face can do. But this is not exactly our task. This is exactly what we should leave to the so called professinals. Our power is that we are everywhere and we can use our equpment well enough to take photos even in non-optimal conditions. A lot of people here has much-much better photos and knowledge then 'professinal' photojournalists. And also these people here have etics I am sure. The only add on we need is the post-judgement and selection made by DT if someone wouldn't. |
|
Body: Canon 1DsMkIII, 5D, 10D
Lenses: 24/1.8, 50/1.8, 85/1....
|
Arquivos enviados: 8101 | Total de vendas: 24822
|
|
|
|
Mensagem editada em 10/06/2006, 04:24:53 AM pela Maigi |
|
|
| Originalmente enviada por Achilles: |
 |
| Mensagem Citada: The discussion tends to go on a different path here. Some posters seem to draw false assumptions and put the agency in a bad light. |
Come on, you know that Sophieso is always protecting the agency. That's not fair. It seems that we all worry about the same thing. We want to make the world a better place, that's all. The only problem is that we have to express our thoughts here in forum in written form, and it's not always easy to draw right conclusions from that. |
|
Canon 400D, Tamron AF 18-270mm, Canon 50mm; PSE 5.0, Illustr...
|
Arquivos enviados: 1792 | Total de vendas: 6887
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/06/2006, 05:18:18 AM pela Littlemacproductions |
|
|
It seems DT has thought this through... now it is time to give such a controversial feature a try. All of the postings are compelling and warrant an ear and consideration. I think DT does this. When the first images are accepted it will be apparant the thought process DT will apply to these images. Newroom is an excellent name for the category. What really kicked this thread into high gear was the use of the word PHOTOJournalism. Let go of the word and lets see what the images bring! |
|
Two brown eyes and an open mind.
|
Arquivos enviados: 965 | Total de vendas: 7369
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/06/2006, 07:22:59 AM pela Lindamuir |
|
|
I only have one question - would the type of photo depicting the after affects caussed by a huge storm - say fallen trees on houses be one of the kinds of photos you are talking about. I have just recently taken lots of photos like this where the high winds from the storm in my city were uprooted, and fell on houses, cars, buildings etc . I would think this kind of photo could be used for insurance companies and the like.
Think it is a great idea you have but people will just have abide by the rules and just think of it as being like a spontaneous capture - Am I wrong or right in how I am thinking? |
|
Nikon Coolpix 8800
HP Scanjet 4370, canon Pixma Printer, Tr...
|
Arquivos enviados: 112 | Total de vendas: 226
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/06/2006, 08:39:48 AM pela Adashi |
|
|
| Originalmente enviada por Lindamuir: |
|
Mensagem Citada: I only have one question - would the type of photo depicting the after affects caussed by a huge storm - say fallen trees on houses be one of the kinds of photos you are talking about. I have just recently taken lots of photos like this where the high winds from the storm in my city were uprooted, and fell on houses, cars, buildings etc . I would think this kind of photo could be used for insurance companies and the like.
Think it is a great idea you have but people will just have abide by the rules and just think of it as being like a spontaneous capture - Am I wrong or right in how I am thinking? |
Make sure to offer a good description of the event (what happened, location, date etc.) in the description and in the Notify Admins fields. |
|
Canon EOS 30D, EOS 50E, 580EX II, EFS 10-22, EF 70-200 4L, E...
|
Arquivos enviados: 683 | Total de vendas: 992
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/06/2006, 09:18:19 AM pela Scubabartek |
|
|
This seems inconsequential. News worthy event photographs usually contain faces, political logos, trademarks, etc. Requiring model release precludes most good shots being included. Granted, the shot that Nuyl provided from Budapest can happen, but we're talking about one in a million, usually night shots and focusing on people in masks. There are tons of political demonstrations going on around here this week. People waiving flags, party logos, probably fights between neo-fascist groups and others. All of those include faces, logos, etc. Without them: there is no shot. |
|
Canon Digital Rebel 350 XT w/ Canon 18-55mm, Tamron 75-300 a...
|
Arquivos enviados: 403 | Total de vendas: 1504
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem editada em 10/10/2006, 03:20:06 AM pela Ffarrell |
|
|
I’ve been reading these posts since the ‘Photojournalism’ announcement and I find myself in two minds over this issue. As the discussion is possibly beginning to degenerate into personal attacks can I just say that I think this is something people feel quite strongly about on both sides, and therefore the language they use tends to be strong also. I don’t believe anyone is intending to insult or offend DT or DT’s members. If we can retain our strong convictions while using restraint in our language then we can continue the civilised discussion this topic deserves.
Achilles has already acknowledged that the term ‘Photojournalism’ is not the best to describe this. Others have suggested different descriptions, can I suggest ‘Topical Stock’ (which may have already been suggested). It seems to be less weighted than photojournalism, but makes the concept different from typical stock (if there is such a thing).
On the one hand I see nothing wrong with topical stock. Images such as Nyul’s have a place and can be used to illustrate editorials, features, opinion pieces on subjects such as civil disobedience (for want of a better word) without in anyway being used unethically. This paticular image could also be used as a depiction of the actual event also, again without any unethical aspects to its use. If it was to be used as a depiction of a different event it would be unethical (however unlikely), but you cannot attribute the bad ethics of an unscrupulous news editor to those of the photographer whose image they use.
On the other hand I am sympathetic with Sophieoso’s position. I totally agree that the alteration of images to be used for news purposes to make them more dramatic, or provide a bias, is completely wrong and something to guard against. I don’t think relying on the ethics of those submitting the photographs is enough, and as with typical stock there need to be guidelines, though rather than being in realtion to noise, etc. they should be with regards to misrepresentation and alterations of the actual event. The description field is so much more important for these types of images – date, location, event, are vital pieces of information – as important as an MR – so that there is no room for ambiguity or misintrepretation on the buyer’s part.
I feel this is an interesting departure, and whether it succeeds or fails, it serves to broaden the outlook, and hopefully to allow for some more creative thinking on the part of the photographers. I’ll be watching as I’m curious to see how this turns out. (I really thought I was going to stay out of this discussion. Oh wel…)
|
|
|
Arquivos enviados: 259 | Total de vendas: 466
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/06/2006, 22:45:49 PM pela Lancemichaels |
|
|
All right all right!!! As stupid as this sounds this thread is the most interesting and inspiring thing I have read in my simple little life. I applaud all of you in your passion. Soph....what can i say. You are the voice. I want to hear. You all keep going. This is amazing stuff and I am glad to be, a huumle part, as small as it is, associated with such a class of people. Every so often it feels good.
Mike |
|
Cannon Digital Rebel 6.2
58mm lens
18-200mm lens
variouse...
|
Arquivos enviados: 69 | Total de vendas: 321
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/06/2006, 23:04:35 PM pela Shootalot |
|
|
I just submitted two photos to the general photos catagory concerning immigration-pending approval. Only protest signs can be seen and all corporate logos have been erased, only backs of people's heads can be seen. The immigration issue is an ongoing protest which has no end in sight. Can a newsworthy photo concern ongoing issues or does it have to be timely-within two weeks? |
|
Canon G10 camera. Konica Autoreflex TC 35MM camera and vari...
|
Arquivos enviados: 1642 | Total de vendas: 6280
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/08/2006, 15:21:48 PM pela Jborzicchi |
|
|
Two question:
1- when will it be possible to upload this new kind of image?
2- The last two days i took part to two events in Italy, the first is a concert make in Bologna cause this city has been honorified form UNESCo as " CITY OF THE MUSIC". All the best italian star ttok part and also PATTY SMITH. I have some shot that cover the event without showing the face of anybody. Today i shot a march of kurdish people in Bologna protesting against Turkey government for freedom. Are these event that could interest dreamstime?
THANKS. |
|
|
Arquivos enviados: 1158 | Total de vendas: 1315
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/08/2006, 16:44:17 PM pela Bobwyo |
|
|
As a former national award winning photojournalist, I find this thread highly interesting. I think the discussion is important and hope we can all be friends when it's finished. I'd like to offer an analysis of the discussion and a suggestion as to how we can cool things off a little.
In my estimation, photojournalism or news photography is all about--and only about--honesty.
Yes, photojournalists crop photos in the viewfinder to present what we think is the true story. Yes, news photographers shoot multiple of exposures of the scene and edit down those that they feel are most indicative of what happened at the event. And, yes, this is, in a way, a manipulation of the truth, especially if we choose to present our photos in such a way as to depict the story as we believe it should be told rather than as the neutral representation of what actually happened, as our readers expect. Presenting news as we want it to be is dishonest. I think you will all agree to that.
Photography is a unique art form. It is considered to be an exact representation of the subject. As a simple example, we all do photos of the family and friends to show others what they look like now. We hold old family photographs in deep esteem because they show what we or other family members looked like "back then." They provide exact representations of events the family has been involved in.
There is a special expectation of photography, especially photography that is presented as a representation of significant public events. When that expectation is violated by manipulation, the viewer loses respect for the photographer and the photographer loses credibility. Yes, National Geographic's moving one of the pyramids or the photographer who added smoke to a scene lose credibility because they manipulate the exact representation of the truth. This is, indeed a violation of photojournalistic ethics. (We can have another agument whether cropping and editing are such violations, but that's for another day.)
This is an emotional topic, to be sure, but the attacks back and forth mask the real discussion: can we take photos of newsworthy events, manipulate them to make sure they are commercially usable and still call them news photos? I don't think we can.
That is why I agree with those who suggested we change the title of the project to "topical stock," or "current issues" or some other such name. With that simple change, we can completely eliminate the need to rise up in anger and shout at our colleagues. We're back doing stock photography aimed at restricted-budget commercial users. We dont' need to call ourselves news photographers or photojournalists or any other such thing that calls for such a high level of graphic honesty. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that to make a photograph something and PS it to remove identifying features or logos is dishonest. As long as we do not present the manipulated photo as an absolutely accurate recording of an instant in time, which news photography must be, we are not being dishonest.
Achilles said we are not a news photo agency. That's good enough for me. But if we are not, then I'd respectfully suggest that we simply reconsider the name of the project and we may be able to avoid a lot of anger from both within DT and from outside.
We're all concerned about DT's image. We want it to be the best. I wonder if labeling one section of our photos as the "newsroom," yet not presenting images as photojournalists are expected to might affect our reputation?
Well, that's my take on it.
Bob |
|
Canon EOS 5D
|
Arquivos enviados: 85 | Total de vendas: 178
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/08/2006, 19:10:44 PM pela Fullvalue |
|
|
Ditto the when will this be available question. Unfortunately, I'm located in southtern VA. Our area was recently ht by more flooding and I shot some photos for insurance purpose that I later realize work great here. |
|
Currently shooting with Canon Digital Rebel XT
|
Arquivos enviados: 1 | Total de vendas: 2207
|
|
|
|
Mensagem editada em 10/09/2006, 01:32:39 AM pela Administração |
|
|
edited by admin: your post has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Please forward your question to support in order to receive an answer. |
|
Leica M-7, M-6, Panasonic
|
Arquivos enviados: 42 | Total de vendas: 90
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem editada em 10/09/2006, 01:10:02 AM pela Foltzfoto |
|
|
Interesting thread.
Speaking as someone who works as a photojournalist and as an occasional photo editor, I can only say that the idea of removing elements (logos, blurring faces, etc) is completely unacceptable. I actually fired a photographer a couple of years ago for removing a water bottle from the fender of a tank in Iraq because he thought it was distracting.
And while it is possible to tell a story without showing faces and trademarked items, if you are serious about getting editorial images into the collection, it really doesn't seem very practical.
What I would really like to see the site do is just start an editorial stock section with a separate user agreement that specifies that the images are for editorial use only. Other sites are doing this and don't seem to be having any problems. |
|
Canon 1Ds MkII, 10D, Eos3
Canon 24-70mm 2.8L, 100mm 2.8 mac...
|
Arquivos enviados: 0 | Total de vendas: 709
|
|
|
|
|
Mensagem editada em 10/09/2006, 01:40:20 AM pela Administração |
|
|
Please don't post your thoughts and say "hey, I am too lazy to read the whole thread". It's obvious that this is a subject that challenges people, even if they agree with our idea or disagree.
Further more, please read our statements. There are some issues such as the post processing part, which have been explained as well as about other parts, such as editorial.
It seems that the biggest issue is this feature's name. Photojournalism was probably not our best choice and I see that Newsroom can also create confusion.
If this is an area that we all agree as not being very close to photojournalism and we stick to everything that was mentioned here (ethics, deontology, policies etc.), it seems that we should find a different name.
Other members who want to suggest a better name for this feature are kindly asked to do it here. Before you do that, please read carefuly everything that was mentioned above. |
|
Nikon D300 / Nikon N80 | Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fishey...
|
Arquivos enviados: 2336 | Total de vendas: 15203
|
|
|
|
Mensagem enviada em 10/09/2006, 01:51:59 AM pela Pinfoldphotos |
|
|
"Topical Stock" was a phrase raised earlier in the thread which I think is an appropriate title for the new feature. |
|
|
Arquivos enviados: 172 | Total de vendas: 834
|
|
Página: 3 |
Exibindo mensagens 41 - 60 de 86
Hora local do servidor: 12/06/2009, 18:23:09 PM |
|
