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| New Prices for 2007 and Free Section Upgrade |
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Wysiwygfoto
558 mensagens
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Mensagem editada em 12/21/2006, 10:02:53 AM pela Wysiwygfoto |
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I have to agree with Ioana and her assessment and I'm sure I'm violating a rule with posting the following by revealing my own statistics but I think it's important in this discussion.
Prior to becoming exclusive, I contributed to many agencies. One popular subscription agency paid 20 cents then gave a "generous" pay raise to 25 cents per image downloaded. My revenue per image downloaded there was 25 cents. Many people, including some objecting to the subscription plan here, contribute there. On public forums outside of any agency, many contributors state it is their number 1 agency. There is another Canadian agency where the majority of my images downloaded were under a "small" size plan and I was getting a 20 cent commission. Overall, I was netting about 62 cents per image downloaded from there.
At DT, I was averaging about 83 cents per image downloaded prior to becoming exclusive. I knew my decision to become exclusive would raise that statistic. Currently, not including the upload bonus, my revenue per image downloaded is about $1.02. That doesn't include the upload bonus. I have yet to make an extended license sale (which would skew my statistic) or a subscription sale (again skewing the statistic in a different direction). Under the new plan, that number is going to more than double because 1) the prices are higher; 2) we will all have more extended license sales; 3) we will be drawing in more customers under a subscription plan and 4) exclusives will get a higher bonus and higher reward based on that extra 10 percent.
Everyone's portfolio is going to earn them different amounts of money and everyone's "mileage will vary" but I see the changes in the pricing model being very positive. |
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Arquivos enviados: 0 | Total de vendas: 899
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Joegough
237 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/21/2006, 10:10:41 AM pela Joegough |
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| Originalmente enviada por Nikitu: |
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Mensagem Citada: Here is some simple math.
I looked in my last 100 images sold and found this.
(the amounts reflect my earnings not what the user has payed for the images)
I have 93 images bought on credits * 1$ = 93 $
I also have 7 images sold on subscription * 0.6$ = 4.2$
Total on the current plan = 97.2$
Now, let's see how it would look with the new plan
93 * 3 $ (average payment) = 279 $
7 * 0.25$ subscription payment = 1.75$
Total on the new plan 280.75$
Difference between the first plan and the second is pretty obvious and the difference for the subscription image only is of 4.2$ - 1.75$ = 2.45$ while the extra earnings are 279$ - 93$ = 186$ .
So, if we would leave the subscription at 0.50/0.60$ theoretically you'd earn 2.45$ more, but in reality without the smaller price proposed for the subscription the users would be less interested therefor earnings would actually fall and you would earn less.
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I'm sorry but I am totally confused by this. As far as I can see I have never had a subscrpition sale at all __ all my sales are for either 'Web' or 'Print' size which are paid at 50c and $1 commission to me respectively. Currently my average commission per sale is about 77c.
I don't see you you can possibly extrapolate estimated earnings under the new price structure as there are just too many unknown variables. Ignoring subscription sales for the moment there are going to be 5 Levels and 4 sizes that an image might be sold for __ so that means potentially 20 different prices although there is some overlap between prices.
Looking at my own port' of 1263 images, only 2 images would currently qualify for Level 3 and 24 of them would qualify for Level 2. That means that 98% of my port' is currently at Level 1 but that should change as more images are upgraded through further sales.
I can't see a way of realistically estimating, with any degree of mathematical accuracy or logic, how many of my images will be sold, at what levels and what prices under the new structure? I'm pretty sure the average commision per sale will be higher __ but I couldn't put a figure on it with any certainty at all. |
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Canon 1Ds MkIII (from Jan 2008), 5D, 20D & 10D.
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Arquivos enviados: 2474 | Total de vendas: 11021
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Cpaquin
40 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/21/2006, 10:23:53 AM pela Cpaquin |
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| Originalmente enviada por Joegough: |
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Mensagem Citada:
I'm sorry but I am totally confused by this. As far as I can see I have never had a subscrpition sale at all __ all my sales are for either 'Web' or 'Print' size which are paid at 50c and $1 commission to me respectively. Currently my average commission per sale is about 77c.
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i really don't get many sales at DT but I had my first subscription sale early in December. In the last week, out of my maybe ten sales, three of them are subscription sales = $0.50 for print size. So I do believe subscription sales are increasing.
Cheryl P.
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EOS 20D, 24-70 f/2.8L, 135 f/2L, 1.4x II
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Arquivos enviados: 0 | Total de vendas: 449
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Travelling-light
116 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/21/2006, 13:44:38 PM pela Travelling-light |
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Will you please explain why you you are against making the maximum size for subscription 5Mp. Most people seem to be OK with that.
I don't think it's dishonest to downsize images for lower prices. Buyers can see exactly what they are getting. It's exactly what you do when you sell them the web size.
Also, when DT first brought in subscription, I thought it was $150 for 300 images. Did that change without me noticing?
At the time, I thought it would not be popular as it was so much more expensive than the other subscription sites.
With this new pricing, you are likely to bring in a lot of buyers who don't want to spend the $202 for a subscription on the other site, but will be very happy to pay $90.
Linda
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Pentax K10D from December 2006,
Canon 5D and 24-105L from N...
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Arquivos enviados: 750 | Total de vendas: 6732
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Littlemacproductions
367 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/21/2006, 14:43:50 PM pela Littlemacproductions |
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From a business point of view the subscription sales are a benefit to the buyer for committing to use DT for a a monthly fee. I would compare it to volume purchasing. If I were a designer committing to DT and going for the monthly purchases I would want a bit of a discount. Discount to the buyer means less to the contributor. Everyone takes the cut.
Also as a buyer of a monthly subscription I would not like to be limited to a lesser quality image. Again, I am committing a larger amount of dollars upfront which pretty much guarantees I am buying from DT.
I am a (small) contributor so I don't like the cut in my commission but I understand the logic. |
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Assorted tools but most important, two brown eyes.
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Arquivos enviados: 719 | Total de vendas: 2762
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Andresr
150 mensagens
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Mensagem editada em 12/21/2006, 16:09:40 PM pela Andresr |
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A couple of things:
The $3 average comission per download used in the example is WAY too high. Doing some numbers I reckon I will get about $1.50 in average per download which is already double what I currently get so I AM HAPPY :D
The average comission per download for smaller contribuitors will be about $1-1.20 at the beginning slowly rising as they get more images in higher levels.
I just thought I'd mention this because I don't want dissapointments when people don't get anywhere near $3 average per download. This would only be the case if ALL your portfolio was in level 5. Just bare in mind the small and medium sizes are the most popular.
About subscriptions, I expressed my opinion on how a high res image should cost a little more, I still think that way but I am not too fussed about it, it's not the end of the world! people with subscriptions download images they not always use or images just trying to fill up the subscription quota, this means we get a lot of 0.25's that we would not have got otherwise. The subscription model is totally different and you cant compare it to the per credit download system.
I am puzzled with this:
another site provides $0.25 per download and 90% of people complaining here also contribute there so? ......
That's something I can't understand.
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Canon 5D,
24-105mm L & 70-200mm L, 100mm Macro
Strobes, U...
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Arquivos enviados: 10717 | Total de vendas: 76324
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Travelling-light
116 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/21/2006, 16:32:34 PM pela Travelling-light |
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Andres, it's true that many of us contribute to both sites.
At the other site, buyers have to spend $202 for a month. Here, it's just $90, so many more buyers will find it a good option.
Also, many people downsize their images for the other site, but have uploaded full size versions here.
We too are very happy about the new prices for single images, but don't think it's necessary to offer full size images at subscription prices. |
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Pentax K10D from December 2006,
Canon 5D and 24-105L from N...
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Arquivos enviados: 750 | Total de vendas: 6732
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Lisafx
457 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/21/2006, 18:12:16 PM pela Lisafx |
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| Originalmente enviada por Karimala: |
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Mensagem Citada: [quote]I just went to sort through my older images for ones that haven't sold yet and all the non-sellers are already gone.
Where did they go? They aren't showing up among disabled images. Did they go to the free section or were they deleted from the site?
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Hey Lisa? Same thing happened to me, but then I realized that I'd clicked on my earnings balance instead of uploads. Oops! :-) The pages look identical. Maybe that's what happened?[/quote]
I think you are right Karimala. That must be exactly what I did. Thanks for the tip :-) |
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Canon 5D, 40D, Various lenses, flashes, studio lights, light...
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Arquivos enviados: 4078 | Total de vendas: 24867
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Mk74
40 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/22/2006, 00:33:25 AM pela Mk74 |
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Andres - yes, I sell on this another site too, but I have some pictures only here. Exclusive images and some more in my portfolio are only on Dreamstime. I don´t know if I will upload exclusive images when price will be the same. I don´t want to sell my assignment files for 0,25$. |
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Sony A100, Olympus C-8080, Corel Draw 11 for illustrations
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Arquivos enviados: 2333 | Total de vendas: 6568
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Nikitu
1317 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/22/2006, 01:30:36 AM pela Nikitu - o membro é um administrador |
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Andresr, my calculation was for level 2 exclusive contributor, like myself, not for level 5. Of course the average may vary depending on the contributor but it will certainly be higher then the current average. |
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Canon 20d, Canon 24-70mm with 2.8 18-55mm, 50mm with 1.8, Ma...
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Arquivos enviados: 3515 | Total de vendas: 5357
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Travelling-light
116 mensagens
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Mensagem editada em 12/22/2006, 02:09:27 AM pela Administração |
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I have to apologise for saying that the price on ** is $202 - that is Australian dollars.
Linda |
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Pentax K10D from December 2006,
Canon 5D and 24-105L from N...
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Arquivos enviados: 750 | Total de vendas: 6732
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Andresr
150 mensagens
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Mensagem editada em 12/22/2006, 05:24:32 AM pela Andresr |
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| Originalmente enviada por Nikitu: |
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| Mensagem Citada: Andresr, my calculation was for level 2 exclusive contributor, like myself, not for level 5. Of course the average may vary depending on the contributor but it will certainly be higher then the current average. |
Yeah it will be A LOT higher than the current average for sure and that is why I keep jumping up and down every time I remember about the new prices here ;)
This is amongst the bigger if not the biggest (and best) price improvement in the microstock industry. We are talking of more than double the earnings in some cases, that's just unbelievable.
About the $3 average for Level 2 exclusive image ...... that is the maximum download price and not the average price.
I agree some portfolios are more suitable for print media but buyers will not buy 100% of your images at 8mp. You are doing the calculation considering current print vs web sales but that ratio will change a lot amongst different levels with the new prices.
At the moment with the current sizes most people (60-80%+) buy the high res file but that's because the smaller version is just too small for most print uses.
With the new sizes, most people would find the medium size (5mp) suitable for most their needs, 5mp is a 20cm print on the longest side so for leaflets, small brochures, half page magazine prints and handouts is more than enough.
8mp is for A4 prints which are already used sporadically let alone 8mp+ which will be about 5% of total sales at the most since large size already covers A4.
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Travelling light, I didnt know contribuitors downsize so much elsewhere. Anyhow check the ammount of photos you are allowed to download in DT's subscription model and you will see that DT's model is ok.
Anyway as mentioned before, subscription sales are rare compared to credit sales.
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About sizes:
I insist that 8mp as the largest image size is a bit low, buyers will be paying the same for a 8mp and a 17mp. There are lots of cameras providing this size already and most if not all future upgrades of current base DSLRs will be capable of producing this size.
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Canon 5D,
24-105mm L & 70-200mm L, 100mm Macro
Strobes, U...
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Arquivos enviados: 10717 | Total de vendas: 76324
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Achilles
3406 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/22/2006, 09:24:43 AM pela Achilles - o membro é um administrador |
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Andresr, your estimations are correct, not all users will download the highest res for the 2nd level, just as some buyers who download now the web version will move to the medium size. However, it is true that the average will be a little under $3. Let's assume that for the regular non-exclusive contributor it will be around $2 after a few months, once new credits start to be more used.
We will keep in mind the suggestion about megapixels, we are considering that. Although most camera manufacturers will improve their products within the next year and the max MP will be higher, we have to design the database based on what we already represent. But once again, these suggestions are pertinent and all ideas will be taken into account. |
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Nikon D300 / Nikon N80 | Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fishey...
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Arquivos enviados: 1967 | Total de vendas: 10598
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Geopappas
269 mensagens
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Mensagem editada em 12/22/2006, 12:37:10 PM pela Geopappas |
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| Originalmente enviada por Achilles: |
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Mensagem Citada: Andresr, your estimations are correct, not all users will download the highest res for the 2nd level, just as some buyers who download now the web version will move to the medium size. However, it is true that the average will be a little under $3. Let's assume that for the regular non-exclusive contributor it will be around $2 after a few months, once new credits start to be more used.
We will keep in mind the suggestion about megapixels, we are considering that. Although most camera manufacturers will improve their products within the next year and the max MP will be higher, we have to design the database based on what we already represent. But once again, these suggestions are pertinent and all ideas will be taken into account. |
Sorry, but I think that a $3 or $2 average royalty estimate is WAY TOO HIGH.
1. Most images in the database are currently under Level 1 (< 100 sales). I estimate that over 98% of the database is at the current Level 1 at this time. That means that only 2% of images are currently at Level 2 (>= 100 sales).
On top of that, I estimate that only 3% of images have over 25 sales and will make it to the new Level 2 or above (>= 25 sales).
For example, if you search for the keyword "business" there are 1,909 pages (at 40 images/pg). There are ~ 23 pages (or 1.2%) of images that have over 100 sales (which translates to the new Level 4 and Level 5). There are another ~ 8 pages (or 0.4%) of images that have between 50 and 100 sales (which translates to the new Level 3). There are another ~ 30 pages (or 1.6%) of images that have between 25 and 50 sales (which translates to the new Level 2).
This means that ~ 97% of the images will convert to the new Level 1 (< 25 sales).
Using other keywords gives similar results (within a percentage point here or there).
2. If we do another analysis of image sizes, you will find that not all images are available at all sizes. So even if a buyer wanted a 12 MP size for a certain image, it might not be available (since the photographer didn't have the equipment or might have downsized the original). So not all images will be available at the new max size (> 8 MP).
3. There is no way (that I know) to predict what size buyers will purchase under the new system to replace the current Print size. But let us take a middle-of-the-road approach and assume that they will purchase an equal amount of Medium, Large, and Max images. That gives an average royalty of $1.50.
4. With royalties ranging from $0.50 (for a Web size) to an average of $1.50 (for a Medium thru Max size), it looks like there will be an average royalty of around $1.00. Even if we bump it up slightly to $1.25 (to account for the higher sales rates for the larger sizes), this is still much lower than the $2.00 or $3.00 estimates being given.
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Canon 30D (and previously Canon 10D)
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Arquivos enviados: 160 | Total de vendas: 1296
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Madelaide
199 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/22/2006, 15:56:26 PM pela Madelaide |
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I fear that the new prices will make subscriptions more attractive to a regular buyer. For just a few cents he will have access to high res images. I support the idea of at least limiting the size of subscription images or charging different credits for different sizes. It would still be an advantage to the buyer and a better deal for the photographer.
Andresr,
I am one of the 10% who is not "at the other site" because I don't agree selling my images so cheap, unless this is an eventual sale.
Nikitu,
My only disagreement with your maths is that you considered that sales would remain the same. What many of us question is that it looks like the new prices change the balance towards subscription sales.
Regards,
Adelaide |
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Mainly Canon A620 for microstock
Traditional photograph...
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Arquivos enviados: 269 | Total de vendas: 827
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Gala98
17 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/22/2006, 16:35:13 PM pela Gala98 |
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I'm not the sort of person to jump up and down when changes happen so I'll just wait and see what happens with the new price structure but I do have one comment to make as regards MP's.
I'm a 350D user so if I understand the earlier comments correctly, my 7.9 mp files will count as a Max size because it's billed as an 8MP camera. Now whilst I'm extremely happy about that, I also understand the very valid concerns of those who've upgraded to the Pro cameras.
The difference in quality must be apparent even over the increased MP size so instead of a Large and a Max size, why not introduce an XL and an XXL with the XL being 8MP+ and the XXL being over say 12MP? This would reward those who have invested heavily in equipment and also those who are perhaps just starting out with the lower end DSLR's.
I know that the new structure, with 5 levels and 4 sizes, is fairly complicated but adding another size won't complicate it that much more and would provide the very large, high resolution files for the bigger end-use needs.
Just my thoughts. :-)
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Canon EOS 350D
Canon 18-55mm
Canon 75-300mm
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Arquivos enviados: 240 | Total de vendas: 292
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Petarneychev
734 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/22/2006, 18:08:44 PM pela Petarneychev - o membro é um administrador |
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As I've been following this discussion since the beginning one question keeps coming to mind, and as I didn't notice anyone mention this, I'll go for it:
How final are actually the things that were announced? This is, the discussion has brought up so many questions, opinions, considerations, etc, etc. Yet, how ready is DT to change what was announced?
As for me, it makes sense to have a lengthy discussion only is something can end up different from what it's been in the beginning. Otherwise, I'd rather spend more time taking photos and trust that as I upload them they'll be found useful by more people.
On the other hand, when it's about clarifying things, I'd like to point out that it takes patience... :) I admire the admins for taking time to answer questions in this thread. From the contributor's side - I find it more useful to wait a bit longer and see how things go in February. As it was said earlier in the thread - there's too many variables to take in consideration. |
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» Canon EOS 20D
» Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 EX DG Macro
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Arquivos enviados: 2221 | Total de vendas: 2044
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Nlizer
248 mensagens
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Mensagem enviada em 12/22/2006, 21:56:49 PM pela Nlizer |
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I would still like to know if raw and vector files will be included in the $.25 subscription prices. Is there a new pricing structure for them as well? |
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